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Post by Ms. English on May 31, 2022 7:10:26 GMT -5
Post your answers to the discussion question here. Make sure to read the responses of those posted before you and respond directly to them when appropriate before posting your own.
Reflect on Lorde's use of irony in the essay. On one level, irony is simply when you say one thing but mean another, or when people in a narrative perceive a situation one way while readers know they're wrong; on another, deeper level, irony is about how things in the world are widely said to be one way when in fact they are not that way at all. How does Lorde use the surface ironies available to narrative -- the ways in which things aren't what they seem -- to write about the deeper ironies of American society?
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Post by afuerst on Jul 4, 2022 13:35:48 GMT -5
When Lorde first arrives in Washington DC, she doesn't know that much about racism and segregation in terms of how it can affect her and the rest of her country. Prior to the incident at the ice cream parlor, Lorde looks around Washington DC with a sense of wonder and sees the bright white monuments as symbols of hope and freedom. This, of course, is irony due to the fact that after the experience in the ice cream parlor, Lorde looks at these symbols as what they truly are; symbols of freedom for white people who have genuine equality. Although her equality is written out in the constitution, segregation prevents Lorde from having an equal set of opportunities to white people, which she begins to realize after being denied service at the ice cream parlor simply for her race. Furthermore, when Lorde states that she had "always hated the Fourth of July" (Lorde, 10), that is another instance of irony as she hated it even before truly understanding the inequality surrounding the holiday and the topic of freedom in America in general.
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Post by nateyat on Jul 14, 2022 7:48:03 GMT -5
Afuerst, I completely agree that after that interaction at the ice cream parlor she did see the symbols that were supposed to represent freedom as "anti-American". However, I think that she did understand how segregation and racism affected her before these instants. I think it is rather ironic that the only reason that they are going on this trip to a place that is supposed to represent freedom is because of racism and segregation. The sister was unable to go on her class senior trip because she was the only black kid and they were going to be staying at a whites-only hotel. As a really young teenager, she understands most things about what the color of her skin means for her life. Before they even get to Washington she is not allowed to go eat in the food area on the train. She thinks that it is odd her parents do not talk about it. I can only imagine the difficulty of coming from a country where you were not discriminated against for your color to a place of opportunity where you are. However, just because it is not spoken about does not mean that Audre is oblivious of it until the trip. Then when she does get to Washington it is just baffling to see all the things that represent "freedom" just not hers; after being directly discriminated against.
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Post by gabriellebuchanan on Jul 22, 2022 14:04:33 GMT -5
Washington DC, is supposed to portray freedom and equality simply what Lorde later realizes that it truly does not represent that. This is Lorde's first time visiting, she doesn't know what to expect but a fun summer trip. She knows about racism and how her sister was excluded from the class field trip due to her skin color. But when she asks questions her parents never answer. For instance her parents say “ never trust a white person” (Pg.222) lorde never gets an explanation but is left with a “ why?” Until later at the ice cream parlor her and her family are not allowed to eat there due to their skin color. After getting serviced by a “White” waiter Lorde is upset and processing what happened. Maybe her parents took her here to perhaps teach/ educate her due to this being her “summer when I was supposed to stop being a child”.
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Post by gabriellebuchanan on Jul 24, 2022 0:03:14 GMT -5
Washington DC, is supposed to portray freedom and equality simply what Lorde later realizes that it truly does not represent that. This is Lorde's first time visiting, she doesn't know what to expect but a fun summer trip. She knows about racism and how her sister was excluded from the class field trip due to her skin color. But when she asks questions her parents never answer. For instance her parents say “ never trust a white person” (Pg.222) lorde never gets an explanation but is left with a “ why?” Until later at the ice cream parlor her and her family are not allowed to eat there due to their skin color. After getting serviced by a “White” waiter Lorde is upset and processing what happened. Maybe her parents took her here to perhaps teach/ educate her due to this being her “summer when I was supposed to stop being a child”.
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Post by Kate S on Jul 26, 2022 10:38:27 GMT -5
During Lorde’s trip with her family to Washington D.C., the irony of seeing all of these monuments representing the freedoms in America hits hard after realizing how very little freedoms Lorde’s family and black Americans have. gabriellebuchanan brings up a very interesting point that Lorde’s parents could have taken her on this trip to see the harshness of the world that they are living in. I disagree that this was probably the case seeing how silent Lorde’s parents were after being asked to leave the ice cream store. They felt that they should have anticipated this outcome and avoided it entirely. Lorde’s view of America was definitely reshaped after her trip to the capital. Regardless of if it was intentional or not Lorde was able to more clearly see, with first hand experience, the irony of how equality is warped and changes based on racial bias and appearances in America.
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Post by Nina H on Jul 26, 2022 12:01:35 GMT -5
The Fourth of July is widely recognized as a joyful celebration in America. This is ironic because Lorde says that she never liked it, even before she realized how little it represented black Americans. Another example of irony in "The Fourth of July" is that Lorde's family gets kicked out of an ice cream shop on the Fourth of July, a day that is supposed to be representing freedom and equality; and that it happened in the capital of the country the day was celebrating. The state of America at the time was overall pretty ironic, as the country was built on the idea of "the land of opportunity" and yet was (and still is) consistently breaking down opportunities for numerous minorities. That being said, this incidence was extra ironic due to the time and place it happened. I think that this trip helped shape Lorde's already growing thoughts about America, and not for the better, due to the irony presented to her.
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Question 4
Aug 11, 2022 18:08:34 GMT -5
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Post by chanks on Aug 11, 2022 18:08:34 GMT -5
I believe some surface ironies she used were after the family was refused service. “ ….that summer I left childhood was white, and the white heat and the white pavement and the white stone monuments of my first Washington summer made me sick to my stomach for the whole rest of that trip and it wasn’t much of a graduation present after all(224).” I believe the author uses these continuous statements about everything being white in American society. The term white washed meaning something or someone is portrayed to increase the prominence,relevance or impact of white people. The fact that white people systematically are higher than any other race. Those two concepts alone embody American society. The fact that the American society was built by white men, was made to benefit white people as group and was built off the genocides and labor of other races speaks volumes. The phrases ``land of opportunity” and “living the american dream” is very ironic considering different groups of peoples other than white people/men are not treated with the basic standard human rights that was inducted into this country from the beginning.
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Post by madelynide on Aug 19, 2022 18:13:02 GMT -5
When Lorde travels to Washington D.C., she is struck by how light everything seems compared to the home she has grown used to in New York City. While in Washington D.C. over the Fourth of July she truly experiences segregation for the first time. This is ironic because the Fourth of July is widely regarded as a celebration of how the United States provides liberty, justice, and equality for all, while that couldn’t have been more untrue for Lorde that Fourth of July. This continues to be a much deeper irony of American society. On the surface, America appears to be a land of opportunity no matter who you are or what you look like. But when you closely examine society it becomes apparent that the land of opportunity only exists for cis-het white males. People of color, the LGBTQ+ community, women, etc. all face discrimination on a daily basis. Most recently, women lost their reproductive rights and same-sex couples are facing losing the right to marry. To people facing poverty in other countries, America still appears to be a land of opportunity but when you look deeper, it is proven that it isn't true at all. Lorde’s experiences that she writes about in The Fourth of July and the ironies seen in it help to illustrate this point.
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Post by adewees on Aug 24, 2022 8:53:17 GMT -5
Lorde is only in 8th grade at this point in her life. She does not understand America as well as she thinks she does. Lorde sees Washington D.C. and the monuments as inspiring and symbols of freedom. However, this is a surface irony that Lorde uses to write about deeper ironies. At this point in time, America was only truly free for white people. Lorde learns this throughout this story, but her view on life is very ironic at first. Another surface irony is how Lorde’s mother and her side of the family are mixed, but still see the whites as untrustworthy. The way she describes it in this story is that they aren’t white but they look like one of the people they are not supposed to trust (the whites). However they are still kicked out of the restaurant with everyone else. This shows a deeper irony, that America at the time could not see past color to the point that they would kick someone out, even if they were only half black or less, while claiming at the same time to be the land of the free.
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H. Hallett
New Member
"I know I said he was perfect but he wasn't perfect; still we loved him, in spite of, because."
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Post by H. Hallett on Aug 28, 2022 13:21:41 GMT -5
gabriellebuchanan, I liked how you brought up the "stop being a child" quote, because that set up one of the surface ironies in the very first paragraph of the essay. I know that I as a reader picked up on that one immediately the first time that I read it, because as a reader I was aware that there was going to be some sort of dramatic conclusion to this narrative that Lorde is telling, and her character wasn't aware of that. The same thing exists in the quote that Nina H mentioned, where Lorde as a writer directly states that she understands more than Lorde as a character does. Both of these speak to the illumination that she experiences in the essay about the reality of her world.
One other statement that Lorde makes that I wanted to bring up was "even the pavement on the streets was a shade lighter in color than back home." I have several things to say about this quote and I will attempt to do so in a way that makes sense. Firstly, the idea of pavement can be thought of as an infrastructure thing, creating opportunities for people to get around, maybe to build things on top of it, but you can't lay down a road without tearing down or paving over what was already in that space. Likewise, the 'American Dream' is spoken of as a thing of opportunity, but often leaves people behind or runs them over in its process. Secondly, there's the idea of "back home." Lorde's parents were immigrants, and they had to adjust to "the fact of American racism," implying that racism is more prominent, more bright than it was where they came from. This also applies to Lorde herself in a way, as she more aware of this racism, this 'lightness,' than she was before, in the place where she lives.
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Post by laurendunning on Aug 29, 2022 20:02:50 GMT -5
Lorde's first view of Washington D.C. was proud and fascinated. She looked up to, literally and metaphorically, the Lincoln Memorial as a place of inclusion, allowing Marian Anderson to sing there when she was rejected elsewhere. But after being banned from sitting in the ice cream shop, Lorde's view of Washington D.C. changes and "the white stone monuments of my first Washington summer made me sick to my stomach for the whole rest of that trip..." (224, Lorde) The irony in "The Fourth of July" is that there was discrimination still happening in a country that claimed to be freedom and equality for all, and especially on the national freedom holiday. Lorde questions her unfair country, because "Hadn't I written poems about freedom and democracy for all?" White was inescapable for Lorde. It was her waitress, the counter, the ice cream, the heat, the brightness, the monuments, the sidewalks. Lorde was drowning in hatred from others and learned hatred for her race.
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Post by :) on Sept 1, 2022 13:11:27 GMT -5
When Lorde travels to Washington D.C., she is struck by how light everything seems compared to the home she has grown used to in New York City. While in Washington D.C. over the Fourth of July she truly experiences segregation for the first time. This is ironic because the Fourth of July is widely regarded as a celebration of how the United States provides liberty, justice, and equality for all, while that couldn’t have been more untrue for Lorde that Fourth of July. This continues to be a much deeper irony of American society. On the surface, America appears to be a land of opportunity no matter who you are or what you look like. But when you closely examine society it becomes apparent that the land of opportunity only exists for cis-het white males. People of color, the LGBTQ+ community, women, etc. all face discrimination on a daily basis. Most recently, women lost their reproductive rights and same-sex couples are facing losing the right to marry. To people facing poverty in other countries, America still appears to be a land of opportunity but when you look deeper, it is proven that it isn't true at all. Lorde’s experiences that she writes about in The Fourth of July and the ironies seen in it help to illustrate this point. I just wanted to comment on this because I love all the points you made. I liked how you talked about how America claims to be this magical free country but they are really not. Also like you said Washington D.C. is supposed too be this center/capital of America that shows all for what this county stands for, but when Lorde visited she was not allowed to eat in a diner because of her race. This shows how hypocritical and ironic D.C. is because it is supposed to show what America stands for just not the perfect America people try to paint out. I also loved how you connected this to current times by talking about LGBTQ+ community's, women, and colored people are still facing discrimination is this so called free country.
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Post by Lucas F. on Sept 2, 2022 19:42:35 GMT -5
When lorde firsts comes to Washington DC with her father and sister because her sister was not allowed to travel to DC by her school simply because of the color of her skin. Lorde, who was completely oblivious to the simple idea of racism, thought this was an experience. She didn't even have an idea of how bad it was until the ice cream parlor. She and her family were not permitted in the ice cream parlor simply because of the fact that they were a different skin color then everyone else. After she exits the ice cream parlor though she is able to pick up on more racist acts then she did before. This is irony because of the fact that when she entered DC, she saw all these statues and monuments meant to display the idea of freedom, but even in that very city, people chose to denied them of that.
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sidd
New Member
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Post by sidd on Sept 2, 2022 21:40:21 GMT -5
Lorde uses a variety of ironies in her piece “Fourth of July” with some being when she mentioned a story about her visit to an ice cream shop and she and her family were asked to leave because they were black, and she mentioned how they walked out as if they had “never been black before” (p.224) in which the irony there was that it was common for black people to get thrown out of white spaces during the time, also that Lorde had experienced this before she just didn’t fully comprehend it until then. Also, when she said they didn’t do anything when in that time the “funny” part was that you didn’t have to do anything to be punished or seen as inferior just because you were black, that was decided for you. However, she also uses another irony in her ice cream store when she mentions how after the event occurred she felt her parents did talk about the situation because she felt they could have avoided it, which is ironic well within itself. After all, you can’t avoid experiences brought by your skin color, as they can happen any time.
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