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Post by Ms. English on May 31, 2022 7:07:44 GMT -5
Post your answers to the discussion question here. Make sure to read the responses of those posted before you and respond directly to them when appropriate before posting your own.
Connections: Compare Anzaldúa's sense of herself as an American to Audre Lorde's in "The Fourth of July" (p. 221). In what way does each woman feel American? In what way does each not?
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Post by nateyat on Jul 14, 2022 8:22:18 GMT -5
Anzaldua and Audre are both minorities and experienced some sort of racism. Anzaldua feels like she is under "linguistic terrorism" she feels like her language as a Chicana is constantly trying to be taken away from her as her culture keeps getting more and more Europeanised. As a Chicana, she feels extremely American. She actually has a hard time "fitting in" with other Latinas that were born in a culture where everything around them was Latin and everyone spoke Spanish. They have different dialects and view the Spanish dialects that she speaks as "watered down". She talks a little bit about how she does not see that many Chicana movies, songs, or really any form of literature or entertainment. She feels misrepresented. Throughout the whole story, you can tell that Anzaldua is irritated but also she knows that her people will overcome. She is just as American as any white American and her people will keep her American language alive. Audre's story is all about how America treats her. She is also misrepresented. In Washington, she sees nothing but white around her. The difference is she is discriminated against for her skin color while Audre focuses more on the discrimination against her language. Audre's racism is so intense that the story is kind of tinged with the feelings of being overwhelmed. Audre's story is about her thinking back to a time when she was young. She is looking at all these white figures in the capital of our country and you can tell she does not know how to battle all of this. She is more going through her life just accommodating and dealing with it because she has no other choice. I think this is ripping away her patriotism. Sure, she feels American her parents immigrated her to give her more opportunities. However, you can tell the lack of representation and the racism as a young teenager has gotten to her. This is why she hates America's independence day.
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Post by Lucas Frankart on Jul 25, 2022 21:58:05 GMT -5
Anzaldua and Audre are both minorities in a community of minorities and even experience some form of prejudice in their own communities. She had a difficult time finding her place in her own community as she was living as a Chicano in America, where many people speak English or typical Spanish. They have different takes on the Spanish language and because of this she is discriminated against by the people who speak traditional Spanish as she is seen as an inferior for speaking a slightly different form of the same language spoken by those who simply speak it just more traditionally. She is just as American as any white American and her people will keep her American language alive. Audre's story is all about how America treats her. She is more going through her life just accommodating and dealing with it because she has no other choice.
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Post by Nina H on Jul 26, 2022 10:53:09 GMT -5
Both Anzaldúa and Lorde believe themselves to be Americans but experience other people trying to convince them they are not. Anzaldúa's languages are frequently insulted by other Americans of different backgrounds. She speaks Chicano Spanish, which she describes as being Spanish that has been evolved slightly by English. They pronounce some words and letters differently, and have even taken on some English words. Because of this, Chicano SPanish wouldn't have come about without America, which makes Anzaldúa feel American. However, people often look down upon it, which makes her feel less accepted in America. Lorde is a black American who realizes that there is racism around her, but, at the time of her story, does not know why. She believes herself to be American, and America is all about freedom and equality, so she makes a point to attempt to protest racism, while her parents and older sisters, who are more knowledgable on the situation, do not. She is confused about her identity, because she is being treated as though she is not American.
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sam
New Member
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Post by sam on Aug 5, 2022 12:03:46 GMT -5
There are quite a few similarities and differences between the discrimination that Audre and Anzaldua both feel. For example Audre speaks about how she is discriminated based on her skin color and being the minority in a group while Anzaldua talks about how she feels that her language and culture is being misrepresented and hidden from the world. While both of these situations are different they are both being discriminated against based on innate characteristics that they cannot control. Another difference in there stories is how they view what they can do about it, for example Audre sees it as all of America is racist and that she is only able to watch it and do her best to accomodate to it compared to Anzaldua who sees it happening but believes that her people will overcome this difficulty and she wants to help. While there situations do differ each of them are exposed to racism and discrimination in America and are confused about why it is happening.
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Post by gabriellebuchanan on Aug 9, 2022 11:27:35 GMT -5
Anzaldúa and Lorde both revel in discrimination in America. Lorde is a younger African American female taking a fourth of July trip together along with her family to Washington D.C., Being so young she understood what became going on around her however I do not suppose she truly could understand " racism" until she later experiences how much the color of her skin displays how poorly she and her family gets treated in the ice cream polar. While Anzaldúa would be more about cultural variations among Mexican culture and American culture and the way immigrants fall in between. Growing up in the United States, Anzaldúa says she had to "accommodate to the American culture" so she is continuously feeling insulted by different Americans about her language and culture, also how much its misrepresented . Both Anzaldúa and Lorde experienced racism differently in America based on culture or skin color in society.
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Post by Ellen T on Aug 16, 2022 17:46:50 GMT -5
Both Lorde and Anzaldua face much discrimination and restriction throughout their lives. While both face different versions of discrimination, Anzaldua facing much discrimination against her language from fellow Spanish and English speakers and Lorde facing discrimination due to the color of her skin, both woman have experienced this hatred from very young ages and throughout their adult lives have found ways to rebel against discrimination and racism through writing. Both woman show how they feel American throughout their writing through their wishes to feel welcome and included in America and not only viewed and judged based on language or skin color. Both authors feel outrage that due to racism and discrimination, Lorde and her family are kicked out of an establishment in Washington DC because they were Black. This opens up her eyes to discrimination which her parents tried so long to her away from. This jumpstarts her journey into fighting discrimination though her writing. Anzaldua also feels anger due to discrimination and censorship due to her chicano upbringings not only from white people by Mexican Americans who viewed Chicano as poor Spanish. She also uses this discrimination she experienced from an early age to propel her writing and her own personal fight against racism.
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Post by Brendan T. on Aug 19, 2022 13:50:43 GMT -5
In Both stories of Anzaldúa and Audre Lorde, they are the outsiders, more like the people that are in the middle of the new cultures and old ones. This is showed very well in both stories that being Audre is surrounded by white people in her way of life and Anzaldúa constantly making changes to accommodate to the people around her that do not speak the same language. As both people feel excluded from their new day to day life they both share common ground of feeling American in a good way. Both of these people came to America with better life on their minds. They do have better lives and more opportunities but it is coming with hardships in the form of adjusting to the new surroundings of new languages and or new people of different back rounds. This does not mean in the future these things will eventually go away for them, it might not though and that's why the people of tomorrow are the people they are now working so hard for.
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Post by Kierra Walker on Aug 19, 2022 16:50:38 GMT -5
Anzaldua and Audre are two women of color who are trying to understand their identities. Both have faced hardships brought on by their backgrounds. Audre is a black woman who faces discrimination due to her race/skin tone although she does not understand why she is being treated that way. Anzaldua is a Mexican woman who was born in America but still tries to connect with her heritage. It is hard for Anzaldua because she does not seem to fit in with non-Mexican Americans nor Mexicans even though she is a mix of both. Both of the women spend their lives trying to accommodate those who do not understand/like them in an effort to fit into their new lifestyles. Azaldua and Audre's thoughts differ when it comes to how they feel about the situations they're in but they both use writing to share their stories and bring to light what people of different backgrounds experience and to express themselves.
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Post by Talia Robertson on Aug 24, 2022 19:47:26 GMT -5
Anzaldua and Audre are both minorities in America. They just both experience discrimination in different ways. Anzaldua was discriminated against because of her native language, where as Audre was discriminated against because of her skin color. Anzaldua struggles to fit in with her own people and with Americans. When shes with people of the Latino community she feels very American because they ostracize her. Her language (Chicano Spanish) is seen as a mutilation of Spanish by the Latino community. From the time she was a young child her entire community was taught that their language was wrong and because of that the Chicano people feel immense shame not only about their language but about themselves and where they come from. But, when she is with Americans she does not feel American either. She has an accent and standardized English is not her first language. So, when she speaks any form of Spanish around Americans, she has been told that she must speak English if she wants to be treated as American. As a child in school she would get in trouble for speaking Spanish. And, as an adult when she became a teacher and tried to teach Chicano literature to her students, she was almost fired and told to teach English literature. She's stuck between two communities that don't fully accept her as herself because she does not completely fit their molds of what she should be. She identifies with both but neither fully accepts her because of her language. Anzaldua is very frustrated by this but she feels that her people will overcome. Audre is a young African American female living in the United States. She identifies as American but she often experiences discrimination because of the color of her skin that tend to make her feel less American. She constantly is reminded by white Americans that she will never be truly American, her and her family could not eat in the dining car on the train because of their skin color. They couldn't sit at the counter at an ice cream shop in D.C because of their skin color. And, her older sister couldn't go on her senior trip because they were staying at a hotel that didn't allow African Americans. Audre is clearly angered by this and feels as though it's not right. She wants to stand up for injustices instead of just standing by and letting them happen like the rest of her family. She feels just as American as any other white American but certain instances that happen where she is discriminated against reminds her that some don't view her as one.
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Post by rubyberg on Aug 25, 2022 21:09:41 GMT -5
Both women, Anzaldua and Audre, are women of color living in America. Both write about their experiences about the discrimination they face whilst living in America. Both women tell stories of how they have to accommodate others around them without questioning it. Anzaldua writes about "code-switching" and how she uses different forms of English and Spanish while speaking to her different social groups. Audre writes about being expected to not question the racism she faces on a daily basis. Anzaldua expands on how she feels "too white" around certain people of the Latino community, yet also is perceived as "not white enough." I feel as though both of these women write about feeling American, by writing about the experiences they face as minorities in America.
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Post by zacharyhiscock on Aug 27, 2022 12:40:28 GMT -5
Both women, Anzaldua and Audre, are women of color who are both trying to understand their own identities. One woman, Anzaldua, is is trying to figure out who she is through language. Audre is trying to understand why she is treated differently because of the color of her skin. They both go through discrimination and racism in their lives, and they both are trying to figure out who they truly are. Anzaldua "code-switches" throughout her life, talking in multiple languages in one sentence, which helps her feel like she's American. Audre feels like she's American because she was born here, she should have the same rights as everyone else, but because she doesn't she also feels like she isn't American. When Anzaldua talks to other Chicanos, she herself doesn't feel American either sometimes, it's like survival of the fittest. In the end, they both have went through a lot of trouble in both of their lives.
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H. Hallett
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"I know I said he was perfect but he wasn't perfect; still we loved him, in spite of, because."
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Post by H. Hallett on Aug 28, 2022 13:44:22 GMT -5
A lot of people have touched on the similarities in the experiences of the two authors, but fewer have talked about the differences between them. One big one that I noticed is the element of change. Lorde perceives (or perceived?) that she was excluded from something quintessentially American due to something that she is unable to change. This is a very identifiable form of exclusion, something that people can read and understand because there are many examples of it. The discrimination that Anzaldua faced is based on people trying very hard to change something about her. I think this is more striking to readers because it's seen/written about less often.
I think these differences have projected themselves onto each author's portrayed sense of their own American-ness. Lorde's writing has a bitterness to it. She holds resentment towards the idea of being American, because she's cognizant of the hypocrisy within that idea. She's looking in on America from a point of view somewhere outside of the conventional American boundary, and pointing out her experience from that vantage. Conversely, Anzaldua's writing feels assertive, like she's staking claim to her American identity. She's working from within the American convention to push it outwards in order to include all of the people that it encompasses, and she's saying that the idea of "the American" already includes her, and needs to start acknowledging that it does.
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Post by Emily Porco on Aug 28, 2022 14:10:46 GMT -5
Anzaldua and Audre Lorde are both women of coloring trying to live their lives in America. They both face discrimination while being in America. Anzaldua has troubles with linguistic discrimination because she feels as though her language is being taken away from her. But even if she tries to speak in her native language she is ridiculed and not seen as American. As if all American's need to speak English. Audre Lorde was in a bit of a different situation, but still being discriminated against. She was discriminated against simply for being African-American. Her and her family were not served at an ice cream shop because they were not white. Lorde describes how everything around her was white, the counters, the people, the heat, and more. That would make it very difficult for Audre to feel American when she was not treated like one and didn't look like other Americans.
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Post by laurendunning on Aug 29, 2022 19:28:44 GMT -5
Audre Lorde and Gloria Anzaldua both experience their culture being crushed and surpressed. In their environment they are made to feel unwelcome and out of place. Because of the hate, Lorde and Anzaldua are forced to feel un-American. They are each betrayed by their own kin, thus feeling out of place at home and out in the world. Anzaldua experiences "linguistic terrorism" from different branches of Chicanos, and Lorde is taught by her parents to ignore and not address discrimination. They both described feeling like they were halfway between worlds, not truly belonging to either one. Therefore, they feel un-American. However Lorde still feels American in some sense. She mentions on page 222 that she remembered Philadelphia because she was disappointed not to have passed the Liberty Bell. This sentence seems pointless, since it stands alone with no other coordinating sentences. Lorde may be communicating that she still feels American in some ways.
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