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Post by Ms. English on May 31, 2022 7:13:27 GMT -5
Post your answers to the discussion question here. Make sure to read the responses of those posted before you and respond directly to them when appropriate before posting your own.
This essay is from Rose's powerful book Lives on the Boundary. What boundaries does Rose write about here? What acts of classification do these boundaries serve?
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Question 2
Jul 29, 2022 21:06:44 GMT -5
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Post by madelynide on Jul 29, 2022 21:06:44 GMT -5
Rose writes about intellectual boundaries within this essay. He discusses how the school uses the Stanford-Binet – a common IQ test – to group their students, placing them in different types of track. The College Prep track is one of, if not the most, advanced tracks a student could be placed in and the vocational track is the lowest track. These different tracks classify students as advanced to special education. Rose is accidentally placed in the vocational track and the mistake goes undetected for two years. While in the vocational track he faces what would now be considered abuse from his teachers, most likely because they consider him to be unintelligent. When the mistake is discovered during his sophomore year and he is moved into the College Prep level during his junior year, he is treated much differently. Even though he struggles a lot, having grown used to the education in the vocational track, the teachers never treat him poorly. The intellectual boundaries that Our Lady of Mercy creates within these tracks serve to classify the students into what they believe their ability to learn is. These boundaries then change the way the teachers treat them, and in turn, the strength of their education.
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Post by ninaholm on Aug 1, 2022 11:00:44 GMT -5
When Rose first went to high school, he was accidentally placed in the vocational track, which was pretty much the track for students on the "bottom level". This gave Rose many educational boundaries, as the teachers in this track mostly didn't seem to care too much about helping the students and didn't really know how to deal with them anyway. The classes they had to take were mostly dead end classes that wouldn't really help them in the future. Rose also came from a family of Italian immigrants, who didn't realize how unhelpful his education was at the time. Rose ended up being the only person in his family to go to university. A lot of his family members hadn't even finished high school. This set expectational boundaries for him. His parents wanted him to go to college and become a doctor, but this was only half-hearted. They didn't really think that would happen. And Rose hadn't thought much about his future because, based on the rest of his family, it wasn't going to be that much better.
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Post by CameronM on Aug 3, 2022 14:57:33 GMT -5
Rose was placed into the vocational track or in other words the bottom level of the school. This was due to a mix-up with another student's test scores that got in the way of him being placed into a group better suited for him. In this group, the teachers did not care as much and also did not know how to properly connect with these students. This created a boundary for Rose because being put on this track made him do things with less effort and helped him lose interest in education because of how low the standards were. Then in his Junior year, he switched to the College prep program which was hard because he was stuck in a boundary of not having to work hard or put much effort into things so when he switched it was like a wake-up call. Then being the first person in his family to go to college created an expectational boundary because his parents wanted him to go become a doctor but with no one else in his family to look up to, there wasn't much motivation for him to do that just based on the fact no one else in his family had made it that far.
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Post by Ellen T on Aug 18, 2022 17:14:37 GMT -5
Rose faces many boundaries throughout his early life as explained in this writing. He is placed on the Vocational Track in school, basically the lowest levels of classes you can take. However this was a mix up and he actually should have been placed in higher classes. This mix up puts a damper on his education even leading him down the path to think he couldn't get into schools for college. This is a damper not only on his education but also on his career down the road. By leading people to think they are slow and lacking in school and allowing truly awful and cold hearted teachers to teach groups of students under the stereotype that they are unable to learn as well as others causes students to develop poor thoughts about themselves and their outcomes. When the main thing you teach students in school is that they are not as smart as others, doors are shut for students who completely deserve to make the most of their education and, due to unfair treatment, are not able to do so.
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Question 2
Aug 21, 2022 20:18:54 GMT -5
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Post by adewees on Aug 21, 2022 20:18:54 GMT -5
Rose writes about intellectual and social boundaries. The boundary between intellect can create the boundary between social classes. In this essay, he explains that a common iq test was used to group the students into different groups, or “tracks” as he referred to them in the essay. College prep was the highest track, and vocational education was the lowest. Rose likely belonged in the college prep track, however he was put into the vocational track by mistake. This mistake was not caught for 2 years, resulting in lasting changes in his life. For example, he learns about students in the vocational track, and the social boundaries they experience. Students in this group were treated poorly — treated like they were bad students and deserved to be there — as opposed to retrieving the education they needed. Most of these students embraced this, resulting in them doing the bare minimum, and shaping how they acted socially. This drew a line and a distinction between students in the vocational education track, and the college prep track that was beyond just intelligence. In this way, these boundaries classified both intelligence and social class.
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H. Hallett
New Member
"I know I said he was perfect but he wasn't perfect; still we loved him, in spite of, because."
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Post by H. Hallett on Aug 28, 2022 12:24:14 GMT -5
A lot of people have talked about the academic/educational boundaries that are tied to tracking and that Rose had direct experience with. I liked what adewees said about how the students embraced their identities thus shaping a new social boundary, because I think that that idea contributed to a sort of feedback loop. It's likely that, like Rose, many of the students in the vocational track had parents who were unable (language, accessibility, time) or unwilling to engage fully with their child's education, which could have led to other undetected placement errors as well as loss of resources or check-ins. Other socioeconomic factors could also be affecting the vocational track students, such as students who have to work or care for siblings, leading to decreased performance on homework and other assignments, which could have contributed to their placement in the track in the first place and eliminated access to teachers who could have helped them work through things harming their academic performance. Then, once students have been identified as problems or have given up on their own educations, they go back and are unable to change anything about their home situation, either by achieving a college education or more abstractly by helping siblings avoid the same pitfalls. With the different types of boundaries layering and compounding each other's problems, it makes sense why any individual one would be hard to overcome.
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Question 2
Aug 28, 2022 15:04:20 GMT -5
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Post by Emily Porco on Aug 28, 2022 15:04:20 GMT -5
Rose lost lots of confidence when he was placed in a vocational education class that was for “bottom level” students. Although really his test scores had been mixed up with another Rose. Being put in these classes with students who weren’t treated well by teachers and were places in stereotypes, he lost motivation in his schoolwork. He said that he got bored and did what he had to do to get by. He didn’t want to do any better than that. When Rose moved to the College Prep program he found it much more difficult due to the boundaries he made for himself. He finally had to work harder and actually go above and beyond with his work. Rose was put in these boundaries both intellectually and socially because the reason his parents didn’t notice the mistake was because they never went to college, were busy working and were also Italian immigrants. After being put in the wrong classes he set boundaries for himself in an intellectual way.
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sidd
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Post by sidd on Sept 2, 2022 21:47:33 GMT -5
Rose writes about the limitations that he was placed within, with him being accidentally placed in the vocational track at his school rather than the college prep track and how the two are treated and seen as opposites with the college prep track he regards as something that is seen as some form of status. However, with the mistake, it led him to witness and speak about the harsh treatment of the vocational track students and how they don’t receive the proper care and treatment to get them within the same spaces as the college prep track students, as he mentions that while he was in a remedial class he had noticed that the kids typically received the same problems that they had been struggling, since they were introduced and how he viewed it as a form of embarrassment and to have them write themselves off as not being able to do certain tasks. Furthermore, he noticed that because of his placement on the vocational track that he was limited to certain treatments that were typically teachers seeing him as uneducated and lesser than his counterparts.
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